Hi, everyone. And welcome to another episode. It was his talks. I am Michelle told Well and I'm leading today's podcast today. We're here to talk about online child protection. And so I have with me Mr Zahid Castro, we part of the Internet Society in Palestine and info Security Expert in addition to Dr Solomon Abasi CEO and chairperson of E Worldwide Group Hello to you all. And thank you for coming. Tell us about your work and how this contributes to child online protection. Mr. Costello,
we good morning. I'm delighted to be here on duh. Thank you for roses to give me this chance to talk about our project. As we know, the incidents off blackmail and sexual harassment on the Internet have increased massively as a result off spirit of the Internet, which resulted a huge number, a huge increase in the number of social media user many teen teenagers you start to using social media in a real age. Despite the restriction rule of EJ, they simply changed their birthdays on dhe. Ah, by buster rules. So, um, they be volume Delta. But this type of social engineering attack and this attack is more than generous the interest, that technical attack because it's it's valid, all available to everyone who has mobile or BC not as a classic, classic attacks That's need background skill, technical backing around the skills. So very stein is not the far from this. Every day we record such incidents on da ah, as a part of the Palestinian media has published many stories about this who get girls who bid about 1000 us Della has around somewhere. Yeah, and some in some cases, the girls kill kill their their kill herself if she cannot bear for this strong somewhere. So our chapter take his difficult responsibility and they started this project. So, um, toe awareness stories, awareness about this attacks
and Dr Embassy Um, I can sympathize with the situation. I'm just just to give you a little bit of background on how it started, Um, the eye to you set up something called H Leg. The high level expert group of cyber Security's on Dhe from that living in the UK and being a global citizen. Well, I raised the issue of human trafficking. Peter Files on DDE basic slavery off women through the Internet, of course, financial fraud was big, a big issue. So everybody was talking about the business and the commercial aspect. Andi, I said, What about the Children and the women on the secretary general? Then Dr Hamadoun, Tori said, Write a concept paper. What are you talking about? So I'm the mother of child online protection, and I'm very proud to be one of the people who instigated this idea on the global concept, which is now 13 years old. But I I get concerned to see, as my colleague from Palestine has said, the challenges are evolving every single day, and it's, um, it's now what's the right word intruded into every aspect of our life As a technologist, The e worldwide group works with governments around the world to promote. Used to be the MDGs. Now the STDs. So I am a great believer that I cities play a role to enable the Environment, business society and provide opportunities for the young as entrepreneurs, innovators, et cetera, and remote working. But one of the biggest challenges I see is that we are still struggling with creating the policies and the regulations, whether you're sitting in Palestine or you're sitting in the U. S your Children are getting addicted and our opening false Facebook accounts clicking the button that I'm 13 2010. We wrote a road map and a book for the Malaysian government for the O. I. C countries at the Organization of Islamic Countries because we were very concerned with the exposure on the moral Onda. The difference with the cultural traditional values that we have in the East. Exposure, et cetera. Online on Dhe During that session, the launching of the book in Kuala Lumpur we had the pleasure of meeting Children, primary school Children from 10 different schools. And I am scared to tell you this huge auditorium they all put their hands up and said they had Facebook accounts on. They were primary. They were not the age of 13. So it all corners of the world people. Young Children are excited to be on social media. But to flip that one of the other things I learned yesterday from a young lady from the Saudi delegation I we took photograph together because I'm very happy to see women in technology. I'll 100 a lot, but she told me that I'm not going to use Twitter because I get a lot of hate and negative remarks on Twitter. So I've closed my account, so there's a lot for us to do. So you mentioned that you, um we're talking to primary school Children that they opened Facebook accounts, and I wanted to know that, of course, is a policymaking governmental role to this kind of regulation. But what about the parents? Excellent question. We cannot basically abandon our responsibilities. Recently. I'm from the UK on dhe. One of the issues that we have is the bride's or widows returning back from Syria on what we have is young, who's who has the responsibility of the ownership. Everybody is pointing the finger after having two billion users on Facebook. Only now does Mark Zuckerberg come and say 23 U. S. Government. Please, can you help us with policies and regulations? I think I'm one of those 80% planning 20% execution people. So I think the planning should have been done in the beginning to Hal. Keep to her keep everything safe. So in this context of of responsibility, it with the the girls I'm talking particularly about women obviously applies to men too. but the young girls that who were at the age of 13 14 15 tempted and trapped and enticed to go to Syria. Now which person it wants to go to war. I think a 13 year old doesn't understand. Maybe clarifies that glorifies what war is I'm afraid of. You know, a big bang in the room. I'm going to go under the table. But what I feel is that the parents absolutely there the people looking at the Children 24 7 About nine years ago, we made talk. It's but her parents for mothers in the home in which we identified a little mini checklist. Where to put the computer. Which way to face the screen went to take it out of the room. Don't have your Children exposed the technology all the time. In the bedroom, you have the mobile charging laptop charging the telephone. Oh, my goodness, it's gonna spoil asleep. So in that space, we made a checklist. Things have changed now at the moment in the UK, we're making parenting in the 21st century, and it's really safe. Parenting for the digital era on that is now looking at these symptoms after the recent suicide of the 14 year old Michelle in the UK on her father lobbying and the white paper being released on Monday. Luck Monday Just gone. We feel that the responsibility lies across the government for sure, because they are the regulators. Andan slap the hand of social media if need be at the same time, they write the curriculum for the education systems in our school. So along with promoting digital literacy, proficiency and opportunities, we need to promote the socializing safe skills on digital society, which is something else we just launched in Nigeria last year on. It's only because I want people to engage but safely in the with the balance in a harmonious way. On dso you have the education, the regulations. Then you have the parents for sure parents, caregivers, grandfathers, grandmothers who are whoever the people are that babies that the Children because unfortunately you know, Children listen to each other. So the education on peer to peer coaching and mentoring and guidance is key. So we need to do a lot of work across all the stakeholders and all of the users, so it's not one responsibility lying with the parents and the most important group are the big giants, the social media companies themselves. They have put their hands up in the air and just said, G, we have you two, We have a rabbit hole. We, we we create code full addiction. We create gaming full addiction. Now with UNESCO In 2010 we did research which showed boys and girls use the Internet inter net differently on we studied Pakistan, U A E and the UK on. Do you know what girls are trusting? We want to socialize on the Internet. We want to chat with family, chat with friends where his boys they want to play games on. They want to be able to to do exciting things so they're more in this tunnel, so they have a different level of exposure. So with this data that we understand agenda differences of the engagement with social media, so likewise we need to be able to create the awareness on the protection is place on. We need to be able to use a eye on machine learning to monitor these behaviors on be able to have cut offs within the social media companies. They can do that there that the smartest people in that space hook that's covered it. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for that. And so I wanted to ask. Now, in this massive topic, what are some of the challenges have you encountered in child online protection? In advancing it forward implementation, raising awareness and Javi leveraged icy tea is to find unique solutions. Mr Crystal, we
as I said, the best way defy such attacks is by reason governess by reason, governess on targeting a new reserves in social media. Otherwise, more incidents incidents will be trapped. INTERNET. A State of Palestine chapter started this project with help off beyond than its funding Bill Graham and Internet Society Global and they started on awareness project. This project aims to reduce cases of electronic blackmail and sexual harassment of teenagers school girls on the Internet it through raising awareness that enables them to deal with these cages with the professional Jim and experience and that treat them too good to get more secure and safe on Internet usage. The brachial A project targeted the female schools students aged between 15 and 16. Yeah, that's the idea because we assumed this. Female students are new on social media and had, like the skills on dhe, the ability to deal with these attacks, the awareness material, what distributed and this material repaired within cooperation with the electric e Crime Unit in Palestine. Police on Minister of Education Take it. The project has been sitting out. In January, January 2018 it was run for one year. During the project, 50 girls schools were visited and about 5000 school where that ended. This decisions. The music team first mentions when Baron didn't accept the parents didn't accept toe involve their daughters and daughters in such a discussion Because it's really a shame, you know. Ah, this has be overcome by involving the local community in these discussion from the village gun sales and other leader community leaders. Besides, in many cases, the trainer first faced riel. The case is off extortion in this case. Is there advice? The incidents toh goto the police. Ah, I will said about the feedback off the project. How the girls said about the project. One girl said, I'm shocked from the stories I have heard in the training. Many things are usually did where I don't know how much generous these were. And how was I at risk? That may change my life and even destroyed my life at all. So now we think the extent the project to cover more schools, more people and to get more people safe.
And so I wanted to ask, going back to the age where he said they were 15 to 16. Do you think that was too late? Do you think we should intervene earlier, given the nature of like technologies kind of perv Asian into now, like people in primaries only
have limited living unlimited fund. And so we constraint the most risky group. We think this the most risk eagle
this I think I agree with you. I made a note here to question you on that I understand prioritization to the most most vulnerable group that would be susceptible to accepting. But my experience in the Middle East is that now Kim Dick, preschool priest. I have friends in Abu Dhabi who have three year olds who have ipads. Andi, I know that in Shanghai now in the Four Seasons Hotel, when you go into their fight Michelin star restaurant, they hand out tablets to kids so that they can be quiet and not disturb Andi inadvertently. Kids get onto the most horrific Web site. I have an 11 year old niece, and she's smarter than I am. Antti, let me show you how to use your mobile on. She wants an iPhone 10. They, by mistake or cute through curiosity link from 1212121 on they get into inappropriate content. They are happy to make these musically videos on. They have thousands of followers on likes, and I'm horrid scared. I'm actually scared to see what's happening. So for me, I think today's society ah, young girl matures a lot. Earlier, she's when I was 13 I was climbing trees 13 year old as Bring lipstick on it, saying, Where's the boy looking at me so that the times have changed. So I think we we 13 year olds, is one area, but we need to go lower for me. I think primary school, the pre pre kindergarten is Mummy and Daddy. In today's society, we really need to be proactive and to to be proactive. We have to start the sensitization at day one they wanted. If we give them a device, we got to give them the training. That's a simple is that I find that very interesting. I have a 10 year old brother and he has an iPad and he's completely addicted to Moses PS four Things like Fortnight and I want you like How are these things regulated? And at his age, I was not even, like, remotely exposed to that kind of technology beyond So it's just like watching him grow up with me. Being 12 years older like the difference is vast and what he's been exposed to, what he's seen. It's just it's incredible to think about. And I wanted to ask something that was brought up earlier regarding the addictive nature of such devices and social media. Is there anyone who want to comment on that and how that's kind of shaped this field? Well, we have Ah session this afternoon at 4 30 on Internet addiction on DDE. What can be done because I believe it's directly collar from the I t. Was going to be on our session. I as I said, being the mother of Seop from there, we started a program with UNESCO in 2010 called G Cup Global cyber ambassadors of a piece on. We developed a ethical code of conduct morals, values, respect off old diversity online on DDE. What we discovered was that peer to peer communication guidance, advice. Even brother elder sister brother relationship is also there. Truman listen to each other better. So I'm thinking it's honestly in its development phase of what to do about Internet addiction. But I'm I'm thinking now Phase three after geek up. The next thing is going to be how to create clubs about keeping safe and breaking addictions. I know that if we have, I think it's Molly. In London, a 14 year old who's going to commit suicide on her father said she packed her bags by the stairs and ready to go to school the next day. Your intimacy, your closest friends need to be need to be your monitors. Not that we want to put responsibility, but very carefully. That's why I said it's in his infancy. It's being developed, evolving in my brain and without our partners and stakeholders. How do we proactively help young people, your brother, to be not to be a doctor? How can you guide him rather than your mother saying, Don't use this anymore. It's got to be done in a very gentle way where Children are weaned off these. So my again, my proactive approach is we don't allow them to get addicted. Let's put limits in place. So you say OK, mobile phone 30 minutes after homework and hours before you go to bed because that also wires you and disturbs your sleep. Research shows that when you're exposed to your even for someone like me, I'm not supposed to do email just before I go to bed. Neither should I be checking messages. This whole exposure to this white light put it away. So the same thing applies to Children. You can give them a window. This is your entertainment time on now. Move to physical movement time so it's It's very important than it should not be a substitute for conversation. So within this window of addiction, there is the addiction to watch. Who's doing what. There's the this multiple addictions. There's the addictions to play the game and get the highest score with yourself. There's the addiction to play games with other colleagues. There's the addiction to make the most risque videos, so that you get the most likes exposing God knows what of your body. So there's there's an addiction to chat with people around the world who you don't know. Marriages are falling apart. So it's not just a childish you, my colleague, will say some more in Palestine. But there's this issue. This addiction is our old age group. It cuts across Children to the top.
Project reveals that the Palestinian Committee Lex, that this kind of awareness at Palestinian we are in need for an awareness that is not limited to toe black bag practical gender for age group besides feature mental and mirror important training.
Wait one second. We'll cut that out. Very important. Said again. Yeah, yeah, I'm so excited.
I should project revealed. You have Palestinian committee late. Next. This kind of awareness, as Palestinians we are need the need for an awareness that is not limited in tow. Practical, practical Ow Particular gender or age group go besides, teachers, mentors and villains is as important as training. Teenagers. Thank
you so much. Um, so I wanted to ask you out to the both of you. One question and I know you touched on this a bit earlier. But do you feel that governments are doing enough? What, um, like on the policymaking level, like what needs to be done? Circus
Aliyah? Simply, I think. No way. Try to India men a curriculum for this in the schools. There is no awareness Asians, however, this campaign for that on. But still we have no policy for preference kids from off to visit some bad sides. Everything is open.
I have to agree with you. I think that one of the biggest challenges we have is the prioritization When you when you go to institutionalizing awareness is important. So from a government context, unless this is in a curriculum which is mandated to be part of digital literacy and awareness and computer science and coding, all of these things are very important for the next generation. But there needs to be ample time given. So that's one big requirement that the governments are not doing enough off. And the second thing is, in the context, off enforcement of regulations, even even if there is a regulation, it's not implemented, there's no consequences. So there's a huge variation across the countries where policies are not written or policies are written and they're not enforced, then regulations are not written or they are not enforced. Unless there's consequences to the private sector, we will continue to have this level of exposure. So now, as I said on Monday, the U. K government has written a white paper on I think that that there needs to be consequences for the companies who are actually exposing our kids to all sorts of crime on the young adults to also so crimes online on governments need to do more in this space. And I I think I recommended it on Monday. I can't remember, but I was talking about the need for a A database, a dashboard to be created by the I t you. That actually is tracking the number of violations in this space I'm going to make. That is one of my recommendations formerly in the wishes process, I think, to catalog what we have in seop of all the countries readiness level is one thing, but then the readiness level being at level one for how long they need to be a reasonable amount of time because its duty of care, the government have that responsibility. You were saying Who owns t keep Children safe? It's all the people. But they all have their roles. If the curriculum isn't there, If the parents are made aware, how are they going to know what to do? So it's a complex situation which I I hope that we can put more shed more light on and unimproved uring the whole wishes poses. Thank you. And Mr Costa. Dobby. I want to ask one last question. How do you see there was this process in I, C. T s and general shaping online protection for Children
as I want a projected organize. As with his champions, it will help us a lot to promote our project, to extend our critic to get funds so reach more people on DDE. Ah, more scope for many kids on dhe also maybe is not only thank
you so much to you all for joining on today's podcast on child on protection and huge thank you to our listeners and make sure you check out the rest of us. His talks Podcasts